Building trust, navigating cultural nuances, and mastering European sales requires more than just traditional strategies. Mark Cox is joined by Domenico Le Pera, a sales leader with years of experience across European markets, to discuss what it takes to master the unique dynamics of selling in Europe. Together, they dive into the differences between North American and European approaches, the importance of utilizing different communication styles, and how to create a collaborative and motivated team. Whether you are a seasoned sales professional or a newbie to the global markets, this conversation offers practical tips and actionable insights to help you find success in European sales.
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Unlocking The Secrets Of European Sales With Domenico Le Pera
We've got a really great show for you. I thought it was relevant in this increasingly global marketplace that we start to talk about how to sell outside of North America. We're focusing on Europe as a region. Now Europe's made up of so many different smaller countries and we get into that but our expert to help us here is a friend of mine named Domenico Le Pera. Domenico is a client executive and he brings great sales and client success and deep SaaS expertise to the table. He started his career in consulting with Accenture.
He was working all over Europe. He spent the last fourteen years of his career helping fintech startups and scale-ups in the financial service industry grow. He's got a great background and expertise in lots of different regions in Europe. In our conversation, we take on those topics you'd expect, like at a high level. What are the cultural nuances that we need to be aware of? I get into asking lots of questions about building trust, not just with clients and prospects, but how do we build trust with teammates when we're leading from North America, working with European teams?
That leads to collaboration. How do we best work together as teams? Really interesting insights that we get from Domenico with real-world examples, because at one point in time, Domenico was part of a team I was running. I was an interim CRO for a couple of years of a North American success story that acquired the business that Domenico was a part of. One of the great conversations we have is around forecasting.
As that CRO at that time, it was really interesting to me to figure out how do I balance the conservative forecasting approach from the teams in Europe versus the optimistic forecasting approach, of the North American teams. How do I put that into the pot, stirred around before I make my forecast up to the board? An interesting discussion from my friend Domenico Le Pera. I enjoyed all my conversations with Domenico. I'm sure you will too. When you do, please like and subscribe to The Seller Well Podcast. When you do, that actually enables us to get really great guests like Domenico. Here’s our conversation with Domenico Le Pera.
Domenico, welcome to the show.
Mark. I'm so excited to be there. Thank you for inviting me.
Listen, so excited to have you here. First of all, I think you're one of the librarians of our podcasts or historians of our podcast. You're maybe the two people that have heard every single podcast we've ever done. You and my wife. First of all, it's great to have you on the show. Full transparency, we've had some great experience working together a number of years ago but I'm really excited for our topic, Domenico. This concept of selling in Europe, because as you've heard with most of the podcasts, we've had European guests, we've had global thought leaders, but a lot of it is North American based.
Today, there are so many organizations that are looking to grow outside into new markets. One of the things that I certainly learned when we started working together four years ago, I guess now 3 or 4 years ago, I learned a lot about the social nuances, and cultural nuances of selling in Europe. I learned most of it the hard way and or through your education. I think it's a really relevant topic. Before we jump in, why don't we do our usual here and maybe get the short story? Tell us a little bit about you and your professional journey that led you here.
That will be great. Yeah, I'm Domenico, I'm Italian. I live in Switzerland. I've been living here in Switzerland for a while now. I started my career in consulting. Actually, my first big company was Accenture. I started my education with different cultures back then. Right out of university, and out of business school, I was super excited to join a big company like Accenture. It was an amazing school because the first thing they took us, they shipped us from Milan, which was the location I was living at the moment, at the time, they shipped us to St. Charles.
A small place where they used to have their training center in the US next to Boston, I believe not far away from Boston. We spent a couple of weeks there just learning about how a proper consultant should behave. From there, I spent the first almost eight years of my career in consulting different projects, always in financial services. I moved to the other side of the fence and joined a fintech company. It was a little bit of my passion at the time. I really wanted to not only consult and tell people how to do things but have the chance to actually implement them.
That's where I joined this little company. It was a little bit more than a startup. It was less than 50 people at the time I joined Quartal Financial Solutions based in Switzerland. We relocated with the family from Germany to Switzerland. We started that venture. I spent several years between Quartal and then at PureFacts, and so fintech companies covering different roles, going from implementation, professional services, and client success.
Finally about 3 to 4 years ago, when I got the chance to meet each other, I was getting closer and closer to the sales side of business because the senior you get, especially in a smaller, growing organization, you realize how important it is to actually sell. That's the way I got to selling and that's where we met each other.
No, that's me. FinTech consulting, and I love working with clients. I love helping them. I'm a little bit of a non-traditional sales guy. I like really to come from the projects and I love to have that experience about going through the motions and the implementation troubles, really understanding the challenge of the clients. Of course, they're really trying to help them to solve their problems. That's really what I do.
What a great background, by the way. Thanks for sharing that. Just to connect the dots. Quaral was acquired by a company called PureFacts Financial Solutions. The connection in PureFacts was our first client ever within the funnel. What feels like 150 years ago, but was probably twelve years ago, I was looking for my next CRO role and stumbled into consulting for a number of different small companies.
The first of which was PureFacts. It was through that exercise with PureFacts that actually determined I wasn't going to take another corporate job as a CRO, was actually going to try and build first a sales enablement consulting business, which we did. That morphed into the current sales training business. PureFacts always has a really warm spot in my heart, the leadership team there and the company there. It was great.
You brought back into help four years ago, I guess, when they'd acquired you at Quartal and we're looking to scale the organization. Of course, if you Google PureFacts now, amazing things have happened with that company. One of the things that was such a pleasure about that last piece of work with PureFacts was meeting the entire Quartal team, Domenico, and particularly yourself, and working together closely on the sales front. Although, as you said, with your journey, you'd been in consulting and then you jumped into a small organization and then you said, “Listen, I got onto the sales thing when we were working together.”
What was so obvious was you had sales DNA. When I had a chance to be an interim CRO and work with you a little bit, it was so obvious that with the European team, you had this real seal sales DNA. As we're fond of saying on this show, sales is just consulting. That background you had with Accenture of getting in and helping clients and figuring out what their issues were, you didn't really have a product to pitch with Accenture. You're just helping clients. That's all professional sales is today. It's consulting really. You were such a great natural fit to run sales for the European team over there.
I couldn't agree more. I can mention so many examples where, I mean, when you're doing a good job, you really managed to get something into this new account, and implement your product. You are helping them. The clients are happy because you've done your job properly. That's where I really get my satisfaction to really see that we made a difference, we made a small difference. Of course, it couldn't happen if somebody was not selling to that organization. I totally agree. Selling is the new consulting.
Selling is the new consulting. You need to quickly understand the client’s problem and see if you are the right fit for it.
You need to quickly understand the problems of the clients and see if you are the right fit to solve those problems with the product here that you have in your palette, but no, that's exactly how I see it. Also the more senior you get, I think, you need to get more exposure to sales because the success of any business depends from how quickly and how well you can sell. I think that's something that especially after my MBA that I did during COVID, I just got naturally attracted to that side of the business. If you really want to have an impact in your business, if you're talking about small businesses, medium businesses, or FinTech companies that want to grow, acquiring new clients is simply the number one priority.
Well said in a much more elegant way than I ever did. Beautifully well said. Let's jump into it a little bit, Domenico because the theme here is talking about those nuances, cultural nuances. I'll be honest, again, I learned many of these things the hard way, working, actually getting your coaching, and getting counsel from you. Let's talk a little bit about the differences between North America and Europe culturally that we need to consider when we're selling.
A little later on, we might even get more specific into different regions within Europe. I think you had a great experience with Accenture. When your business was acquired by PureFacts, you would have had this feeling of dealing with this North American company versus how we were running things with Quartal. Tell me a little bit about, from your perspective, the differences culturally from a business perspective between North America and Europe.
That's a great question. Honestly, it's something I've really been thinking a lot throughout my career. Just wanted to give you a little bit of background. I was born in the south of Italy. I quickly change culture environment when I went studying in the UK, in Sweden. I had the chance to work in the UK. I had the chance to work in Germany, and then finally settled in Switzerland. It's been always part of my development and I always found it extremely stimulating the possibility to really work with people with different backgrounds, with different cultures.
That's really something that means a lot to me. That's why when we got acquired by a Canadian company, from a Canadian company, from PureFacts, I was super excited to really have that experience because everybody knows that when you're talking about acquisition, the cultural fit plays an important role in the success. We did that acquisition during COVID. It wasn't easy. We couldn't travel at the beginning. Everything, we needed to connect and to understand each other through Zoom calls.
Obviously, we realized quite quickly the differences that were there, just the differences in conducting business. On the other side, I also want to be clear that still there are a lot of similarities, especially when you're talking about the B2B environment. Of course had a lot of things in common about the product, understanding the client's needs, and understanding the client's problems. I would like to start from the similarities first.
There are a lot of similarities, especially for selling, if you're working in the same area, working in financial services, selling for big banks, you will find a lot of similarities in a big bank in Canada, with a big bank in the UK or Germany for sure. Of course, there are not a lot of little cultural differences and nuances that I believe are super exciting and that you just have to be curious to learn that.
That's a little bit what I will say the main factor is about positioning yourself in any interaction with another culture as being humble and I'm being curious because you will never of course understand all the different little things that make up a culture. If you are willing to be transparent and open and share what you can bring about your culture. This fit will just happen and you will be much more open. This is just a little bit of the starting point.
The main factor in positioning yourself in any interaction with another culture is being humble.
Of course, there are a couple of things. Again, I can also mention just a little episode, I believe in one of our first town halls, we just joined. For a Swiss company, the punctuality was a big topic. It was something that was not even thought for us but we realized that after joining the town hall, all the 50 people that had just joined the virtual time all on time, there were all the European people. The Canadians started coming over just a few minutes late, nothing dramatic. It was nevertheless, for us Swiss people or for a Swiss company, it will never happen.
On time.
You have to be on time. That's obviously the difference between the time perceptions and different cultures. They will have a more linear understanding of the timelines, of the schedules. Other cultures might really have a more flexible approach to time management. That's something that of course is very well known. Nevertheless, of course, what we ended up doing when we put companies together is compromising. Finding the right equilibrium, but understanding it. If you're a manager and you are in these kinds of situations, of course, just try to be prepared yourself, and understand in which situation you're going to be so that you can avoid these little accidents that they will not promise.
Domenico, what a great thing to bring up. How important on a first impression? When you think of this, the company's been acquired. New leaders, when they step into a new role, companies when they get acquired. It's that first 90 days where people analyze everything you do with a microscope. This is something sales leaders, when they move around, they have to be very cognizant of this. During their first 90 days, almost every word out of their mouth is really analyzed by some because they're trying to assess what are they all about the team that they've taken over.
I think this is a good point. That first town hall where you're having with the new organization, even if there's some technical difficulties or five minutes late, that's a big deal because it's a first impression. It's like showing up for an interview a little bit late, that first impression, you're very difficult to come back from that. How interesting, it seems like a stereotype, but of course, Zurich, Switzerland, is the home of the best timepieces in the world. You've got to be on time if you're working with an organization in Zurich, Switzerland.
I'm happy that you mentioned the concept of stereotype because when you're working and thinking about different cultures, there's always this conflict. Should I believe what I read or is it just a stereotype? I believe that there's always a grain of truth in every stereotype, but it's all about how you go about it. It doesn't mean that if you're Swiss, you're going to be punctual. Nevertheless, if you're meeting a Swiss people, you have a highly likelihood that he's going to be punctual in that meeting simply because it's part of the general culture.
In the same way, going back to the difference and what it was really easy to pick up at the beginning when we started with the integration was the way the communication was flowing. The fact how the message was passed directly realized that all the negative messages were very cushing. The German-speaking cultures tend to be a bit more direct in the way they give feedback. After a couple of days, we realized that our Canadian colleagues were somehow always embellishing the situation a little bit and giving back a lot of positive elements before throwing in a negative nugget, a negative comment.
That's something that threw us a little bit away because if I say, “What is the main message that I want to get from that meeting? Is it that there's an area where we need to improve or that we're doing great?” Sometimes when you're giving this negative feedback and you cushion it a little bit too much, you have to be super careful to ensure that the message actually got in, mentioned that you want to be.
Let's hold on to that. What a great one. I definitely think certainly with small and medium businesses, particularly in North America, entrepreneurs have this optimistic view of the world for sure. They think of things in the future in a very positive way. How interesting, because in one sense, you're trying to always do that as an entrepreneur. I'm an entrepreneur trying to lift the spirits of the team and you zone in on things that went well rather than the negative but other cultures are a little more direct and fact-based.
That's very interesting to think about because if you ask somebody on a European team about the state of affairs, their direct response, which is very much fact-based in North American culture, you're right, it might be perceived as being negative. I think leaders have to take that filter off and say, “Listen, that's just a different way of communicating it.” It's not really even pessimistic, it's just fact-based. I found that a lot too, working with the team. They were very direct.
That's also something that I learned from being from the other point, the other perspective, that it's true. You want to ensure that the team is positive and motivated, especially in sales. You cannot afford just to get out of a meeting with this luggage, a negative, unclear message. Found it's actually, there are a lot of great elements in the Canadian and North American way of doing business which ensuring that there is a lot of focus on the positive elements because that's like it. You can always look at your cup as full of empty. Let's agree on the facts. Nevertheless, let's ensure that we are living that meeting with a positive attitude, and we are ready to knock the ball out of the park if you want to use a baseball analogy. Might be difficult to understand in Europe though.
The more you get to work with people from various cultures, the more you become curious to understand their background and ways of doing business.
I threw that one around a lot. Domenico, going on some of these nuances, so those are in team meetings. By the way, that was a key learning as a sales leader working with the team at the time. This came into play in terms of forecasting. Forecasting is a very interesting one with the sales organization because as a sales leader, you're trying to get the team to forecast performance. You don't want them to sandbag.
You want to make sure they're not sandbagging a little bit where they are under the forecast, but then slightly overachieve, but they're keeping things in their back pocket. To a certain extent, you do want a little optimism where they stretch the limits a little bit and they go, as we like to say, above their skis a little bit. Oftentimes, when they set a bit of a higher goal for themselves, people actually achieve it. It's amazing when you set that goal but this is one thing that I had a real time with or had to get used to I think the European team was very accurate at forecasting but they were conservative and accurate. Would you agree with that?
I will definitely agree with that. As you say, there's a little bit of a different approach. It was more like, let's start from the facts and then build our forecast based on the numbers that we have and the deals that are already qualified, and what you can reasonably close. On the other side, of course, there were North American colleagues. We were all driven by the numbers that we needed to make and what are we doing to actually get there.
Honestly, I think that was an amazing experience to actually have exposure to both ways of doing things. As a sales leader, what you need to do is you have to average out, and whatever is coming from the part of the team, but also leverage out. You need to know your team. Going back to the topic of preparation and understanding the people you're dealing with. The more you get to work with them, the more you are curious to understand which is their background, which is their way of doing business, you will naturally understand whether they have a more conservative or a less conservative approach.
The other thing that is also very helpful, Mark, and I think we've been building together to build those processes, is let's be clear. What is the purpose of that forecast? Is it something that we need to commit with some investors that are coming tomorrow and it's a number that they will hold us accountable and we cannot really miss it. Are we talking about our yearly targets and we want to be optimistic? I find that sometimes with sales forecasting, you need to ensure that the context is set properly so that you can get the right information.
Fantastic point. There has to be this clarity on the definition. This is one of the biggest challenges, frankly, Domenico, we face when we're working with all of our new clients. They come in and there's a lot of talk about pipeline. This happens a lot with the investor community too, because the investor community comes in and says, “Let me see your forecast. Let me see your pipeline.”
They have no definition of what a qualified opportunity is. From sales rep to sales rep, they are different qualifications. Of course, this is the lunchbox letdown of most investors when they invest in companies, they get in, and take a real look at the pipeline. Where we're getting into committing things in blood for a quarter, those things that were in the pipeline never come to fruition.
I think we've done a couple of podcasts and a couple of LinkedIn posts, I think we titled them something like, “Lies. My CRM system told me.” Something of that nature, but you touched on such an interesting one and certainly having lived through this, I love your take on it. You talked about meeting and learning about the team.
Any sales leader has to get in and really understand their team. Any CEO's got to understand their team, both personally and professionally. Tell me a little bit about culturally what's appropriate, not in terms of trying to build trust with a new team for the next CEO who's building out a European team. How do we get in and build culturally, build relationships, and build trust and credibility?
Tell me a little bit about that process, because I think it's relevant as you're leading a team in Europe. I think it's really relevant as you're actually trying to work with prospects and then customers to build relationships and trust and credibility. It always felt to me a little more formal in Europe than in some places in North America. It's quite formal in some places in North America, but Europe seemed just a little bit more formal to me.
Mark, I think the main thing that I will say is that Europe is not a thing. In reality, we just have different nations on the European continent. Some of them, they have huge differences. The language being the main one. Historically, you have the English-speaking part, which is based in the UK, even if nowadays, they're outside of the European Union. Nevertheless, they are one of the key economies in Europe. Also, the Nordic countries that are close to Sweden, the Netherlands, those guys, they just speak perfect English.
You can, no problem, do business in English as you do in the UK, also in Belgium, the Netherlands, and Sweden, and Norway because their language is just perfect. Of course, there is the German-speaking side which is of course Germany itself, but also the German-speaking Switzerland, and Austria. Those guys tend to have significant differences. We have France, which is a huge nation with great culture, great food, amazing places to visit, a historical heritage, you name it. You also have the southern European countries, Italy, where it came from, or Spain, and Portugal.
Those guys of course they share a lot of commonalities as well. For everyone, especially North American companies that are looking to sell in Europe, is really you need to go one level down. Which markets are really going to want to go after and which are the priorities? I tell you, language is a big barrier. The majority of people, especially in a B2B context, especially if you're talking about big organizations, banks, financial institutions, asset managers, most of the people you will be interacting with as a sales leader in your client organization do speak English, no problem.
Nevertheless, it might not have the same level of comfort as a negotiation, to really want to work with you. Maybe some of the older members of the team, they're not familiar, they're not willing to just have a new supplier who doesn't speak their own language. Sometimes the difference in sales is so minimal that you need to mark all the boxes. You need to be a gang. Language is definitely one of the things that doesn't have to be underestimated. My first suggestion would be to understand what do you mean by Europe.
Which are your target markets? You want to prioritize the UK, you want to prioritize Germany, you want to prioritize Switzerland or France, or the South European countries. You've done your homework and exactly where you want to go, then building this relationship and understanding the people you're working with is the next big thing. Once again, we can mention a stereotype, but one of the key differences between North America and the majority of European countries is a different approach to entrepreneurship.
American companies, they tend to be more entrepreneurial, while as Europeans, we have usually a lot of companies, bigger-sized companies, also small-sized companies. Most of the people have a bit more of the employee mindset, positive or negative. It's just a corporate mindset. They want to do a good job but within the limits or what is the mandate or what is assigned to them.
I think sometimes, especially an entrepreneur that is going directly to the value and I can help this guy, let's sort it out. You still need to understand how that specific organization works and the limitations that you might find because that's not the job of the person you're interacting with right now. You will need to interact with different departments but I think, Mark, if you have experience working with a big Canadian bank, you will know that very well.
It's so well said. What a great thing to bring up, Domenico. Big Canadian banks, by the way, slightly socialist economy. There's no point running from it but in a regulated industry, defaults to a socialist economy because it's an oligopoly. There's a different mindset in an oligopoly when big US banks cannot compete in Canada at a retail level.
The difference is they have a guaranteed customer base with a small number of players that have been entitled with a market. It leads to instead of being entrepreneurship, it leads to being risk averse. For example, if you're selling into a Canadian bank, which I spent 12 or 13 years of my career doing, what they're focused on is risk management is incredibly high on the radar because they have almost guaranteed market share and almost every product and service is exactly the same as a competitor.
I say that with love and respect because I also invest in Canadian banks and they do extremely well. We Canadians get benefits on both sides of the fence, but the same thing goes for a Canadian telco, regulative industry, bureaucratic, risk-averse. We noticed a difference in North America selling into US banks, they're commercial entities. When you're having that conversation, it's talking about growing market share and differentiating. They have an appetite for it and they make decisions more quickly because they're not nearly as risk-averse. Now, I should in fairness, a lot of testing has been done on me personally over the years.
One of the things my beautiful wife is fond of reminding me of is I'm highly risk-averse. Which is unique for an entrepreneur. I should show a little love to everybody out there. Understanding those cultural differences and from a selling perspective, Domenico, as you and I learned, I think it's very interesting because there's a process for some of these large banks in Europe and there's a bureaucracy and there's a precision to that process. Very hard to change that process and they're not fast. A lot of times these decisions don't get made quickly, but you've got to have that endurance in the sales cycle, particularly with a large financial institution.
Also, Mark, I think it's also important to adapt the way you're running your pipeline, right?
Yes.
The sales cycles. Everybody's saying the sales cycles are super long, they're not closing, but it's fine. You can work with it. Of course, you need to ensure that you have enough numbers in your pipeline that you can afford to play with this huge and it's very long time cycle. Always ensuring that you need to stay on top of the game throughout the several months that it will take to run an RFP, the RFI.
All the due diligence checks that the procurement department might throw at you. My thinking is always that sometimes you cannot run your American pipeline the same way that you're running the European one because the rhythms might be different. Let's be smart, leverage the data that you collect in your CRM, and then adapt it and try to optimize your pipeline for the peculiarity that you might have in that specific market.
All fantastic advice. By the way, I think we might even have a second and third podcast on this topic, Domenico, because it's so interesting. Talk to me a little bit about the team. When you start to think about, and again, understanding Europe is made up of at least 6, 7 different unique and different regions. Generally, if we were recruiting people out of the UK or we were recruiting people out of Italy or Germany, tell me a little bit about what CEOs and sales leaders today need to think about. How did they attract the next young Domenico who's leaving Accenture but thinking about coming to another organization? What's important to that particular employee?
That's a great question indeed. I will really start with ensuring that you are treating your potential employees with the respect that they deserve. You need to do a bit of research. If you're asking for somebody to join and you want to have a compelling offering, let's understand which is the taxation in that specific country, because countries like France, they will kill you. You cannot have an employee, the difference from the cost of the company and the salary, it's massive.
There are different ways. You want to propose to that employee to work as a contractor or as an employee. Be clear about the benefits you want to offer, and be clear about the money you want to spend. Of course, nowadays, everybody, if you want to attract smart talent, they will have the possibility to use different options. We tended to use a lot of flexibility in this regard. If you want to have that talent and that specific talent, of course, wanted to have an employee contract to have security, a small family, of course, you need to ensure that you are offering something in this direction.
Find the right talents by being clear about the benefits you want to offer and the money you want to spend.
On the other side if you find somebody who has more experience, has been running his business for a while, and doesn't mind being part of the real taking more risk, but also more reward. The variable component and you can structure your deal differently. The first thing I will say is that do a little bit of homework and not being too as fixated with the model that might work in a different country, because you need to be able to adapt it if you want to get the best talent in that region. Go for a concrete example.
In France, we ended up working a lot with contractors, simply because for us it was a more efficient way to ensure that those guys were not really paying huge amounts of taxes or they would optimize their taxes because there were a lot of travel costs that they could deduct. On the other side in the UK, when the employer laws and the possibility to hire staff, it's much simplified and closer to the US and North American systems.
We tended to have direct employees, but every country is slightly different so be prepared, be professional, I mean, not being too strict. Having the flexibility, but also grounding your offer on a little bit of research about the peculiarity and the standing of the specific country that person is going to operate into. There are also a lot, of course, legal requirements that have to be considered.
Having good HR partners who can advise you on those areas is a huge benefit, but if you don't have it, there are a lot of resources online that you can use. There are a lot of course consultants that can help you out. I believe that especially in nowadays market where even everybody's after the talents, you're doing that research upfront so that you come up with a good package for your VP or local contact executive.
It's such a great tip that again, a lot of organizations, particularly mid-size organizations, they don't have the depth and experience, or knowledge to understand that. I think a lot of times we've seen with our clients, they go through a process of the first couple of people, they just hire and then they have to go through this learning curve and they might find out because of the tax situation and so forth and keeping somebody whole, it's much more expensive than they anticipated.
It's also making sure that that individual stays. You guys, like with that experience with Quartal coming on board with PureFacts during COVID, I mean, the distance thing would have seemed even more significant because your team was spread out over Europe and just this lack of human connection starts to really play into the whole team building, the collaboration, all those kinds of good things.
Mark. I also wanted to go back to your previous question about the team. I believe also when it's about managing people and motivating people, it's again, another area where there are a lot of similarities everywhere in the world. If you want to have motivated people, you need to be clear about the expectations. You need to let them feel involved in the process. Of course, it's not only about the money, but of course, the compensation structure has to be clear. The way it's going to be evaluated is going to be clear.
The commitment is going to be renewed. Over-communicate, and repeat your message to ensure that everybody's online. We are all distracted. Of what you say, probably 80% of what I say, they might get lost in translation. It might get lost in the next couple of hours between other things that we're all doing. The way we're approaching, communication, especially in the sales world where we interact not only internally within the organization, but we interact with clients. I believe that's exactly how to keep people motivated you need to over-communicate.
Overcommunicate with your team and always repeat your message. 80% of what you say usually gets lost in the next couple of hours between the other things you are all doing.
You need to meet in person if you can, but if you cannot, of course, go on. I mean, repeat. Ensuring that we are using all the tools that we have available. Not only, I mean, repeating wishes, our valuable position, which is the good things that we are doing as a company. Why is it a great place to work? What are we listening also to is the feedback that we're getting from the people, over-communicating and ensuring that people who are in these locations, they feel part of the same company. One of the things that I believe is making the biggest difference.
Domenico, as you were saying that, I was thinking about something I'm reading right now, which is a book called, Can You Hear Me? by a fellow named Dr. Nick Morgan. The book came out in 2008, actually pre-COVID. We're ahead of the curve there, but what he talks about is in terms of making a connection with someone, there are conscious and unconscious triggers for any form of communication. Your unconscious mind is particularly good at picking up triggers when you meet somebody face to face.
Lots of different things, the way their eyes are moving, their mouths moving, how their body language is, all these unconscious triggers. It fills you with this understanding of what their intent is. One of the things that he positions beautifully in this book is in the virtual world, whether it's this, which you and I are on a Zoom conference right now, or whether it's just to teleconference, just the voice, people who are listening to this podcast, just the audio version, your unconscious mind cannot pick up on all those triggers because those things aren't there.
What it does, your unconscious mind is it makes assumptions that are generally wrong. Things like building trust, credibility, and relationships, it's all very fragile in the virtual world. We think that just because we can see each other, it's the same. It's not. I remember having my interactions even with you four years ago, and then we had a sales kickoff we ran and we were at this same dinner table.
Suddenly, it's completely different. That's where at first, I had the first opportunity to realize you are the world's most interesting man. We got a commercial in North America for a beer called Dos Equis, two X's, Dos Equis. It's a great commercial about the world's most interesting man who also drinks Dos Equis. You're a very young version of that man. This is where those connections come into place, the face-to-face. Wherever possible, I think getting in front of somebody, whether it's a client, a prospect, or even a candidate you're interviewing, it's just so important to make that effort.
It is. You mentioned also Mark, you mean the sales kickoff events, and they are so important. We went in different phases in the last couple of years, sometimes we could afford to have a sales kickoff. Sometimes it's just situation was so dynamic that we couldn't even do it. We couldn't really come all together. The value that you get in these interactions with the people, it's that everybody gets in terms of aligning the message, ensuring that the message is not only in one direction, but you get also this feedback.
As a company, you can grow by interacting with your sales guys because there's all conception that you can just say to the sales guys, you give them something, the Hoover and they go around, knock at doors, and sell. It doesn't work anymore. Those are the guys who get so much interactions with the clients that you need to ensure that your product officers and all the leaders in your organization, they listen to what the salespeople are saying. You need to ensure that you're adapting the way you're selling, the way you're building your product and the way you're demoing, the way you're presenting, the way you're pricing with the inputs that you get from the people on the ground. The sales kickoff tends to be a great occasion to actually do that.
That's where you really get to know somebody. For everybody reading out there, I know we all battle with the cost because I was highly aware of the cost at that time, I think we probably brought 30 people in those rooms when we were running those quarterly sales kickoffs. Goodness me, if I look back on my impression of the European team, your team was very formal.
A little bit formal, but polite, tough to get to know a little bit on these Zoom calls in these forecasting calls, and we were going through a transformation. When that same European team came to the sales kickoff, as great as you were in the meetings during the day, highly engaged, highly personable interaction, the evening events, the dinners, and maybe a few drinks afterward, it was almost a badge of honor.
It was the European team that was out partying in a professional way everybody else and having fun, being social, and staying out late with some of the team members, yet very early in the next morning. The European team was in the room, front, and center, ready to go. It was almost this badge of honor. Again, hence the world's most interesting team. It was this badge of honor of staying up late, but still being up in the morning, exercising, being fresh and ready to go. We had a totally different perspective of the team once we had done that quarterly kickoff.
The reason for this is that, especially if you are a North American organization that has a North American headquarters, the people who are not in North America, they will feel a little bit far away.
Disconnected.
That's why on these occasions, you actually have a chance to voice yourself, to get to know the people. You are part of the game. That's so important then to have these kinds of events and get together to ensure that everybody feels part of the same company. As I say, it's not rocket science, it's a simple thing, but obviously just executing on the simple thing. I think it makes a big difference in a lot of organizations. Do the things that do not work and sales kickoff meetings, they work, they bring the team together to ensure that everybody's going in the right direction. You can communicate more effectively and you can learn a lot from the people that you don't have a chance to interact with every day.
European Sales: Doing things that are not work-related brings the team together. It ensures everybody is going in the right direction.
That goes back, Domenico, to what you said at the beginning. There are so many similarities, as long as people are humble and curious. I think this idea of just being humble and curious generally in life is a good strategy. It really is. We're far less interested in working with know-it-alls. We're really interested in working with learn-it-alls. That whole idea of just being humble and curious, it's such a smart way of interacting in life, and really good things are going to come from it.
On that topic of being curious, and I also wanted to just reference a book by Erin Meyer. She's an amazing author. She also wrote the No Rules Rules. I don't know if you read it, but definitely suggest it. She's an amazing professor. Didn't say at one of the biggest European business schools, but the book I'm suggesting about cultural differences is called The Culture Map. She also created a number of nice tools to really visualize the differences between cultures. Of course, you need to be aware that as with everything, there are a lot of simplifications.
Not every Italian will be loving spaghetti, but most of them will though. There's a lot of value that you can get in doing your preparation and understanding if you're meeting people coming from a culture that you don't know well. Definitely suggest read it, look at the map itself and the differences, the virus dimensions that go from communication, evaluating, leading, deciding, trusting, and disagreeing. She's done an amazing job. I myself, I tend to use that tool whenever I'm meeting somebody from a culture that I don't know.
Fantastic. Team, that link will be in the podcast notes. That's Erin Meyer and it's The Culture Map. As you're contemplating growing it, by the way, the world's a global marketplace now with SaaS offerings, and any offerings are really what a great tool to forward, Domenico. One last question. First of all, I do want to say thank you. Thank you so much for joining here. It's always a pleasure having a conversation with you. We're going to have you back on the show, but you're one of the most well-read people I've come across. What are you reading these days? I'm always asking people where they're getting their information and what they're interested in. We've just got one there with The Culture Map. What else are you reading right now?
I'm reading a couple of books about artificial intelligence. I don't have them in front of me, but we can post that in the regular. Honestly, there's so much material on artificial intelligence that I appreciate tips and suggestions. I just finished an amazing book that is a totally different topic, which is The History of Food and the impact that food had on humankind. It's called the An Edible History of Humanity. That's amazing. It's really going back to being an Italian, the stereotypes that we love our food, but the importance that food has in the way the culture developed, it's usually understated and not really fully understood.
That was a good read a little bit outside of the box. I tend to also have a mix of books that I'm trying to read almost at the same time. I will have a couple of business-orientated books, but I love to have something about history as well. Maybe just a nice novel, like I love novels about robotics and anything to do with future forecasting. I'm a huge fan of that. I tried to mix it up a little bit, but right now, of course, there's so much literature on artificial intelligence that I'm really trying to understand and a little bit more about that.
Amazing. First of all, Domenico, thank you so much for joining. We'll have you back for sure, but it's always great to chat with you. I cannot believe we burned through the entire time that quickly but thanks for your insights. A lot of people listening might have some questions about selling in Europe. Would you be open to them actually reaching out to you on LinkedIn and maybe asking a question?
Please do. Yes, I'm reachable on LinkedIn. Domenico Le Pera is my profile. You will find me. I'm based here in Switzerland, but I say that I travel a lot between the other European countries, Germany, and the UK. Please do connect. If you have any questions, if I can be of any help, always happy to connect.
Feels to me like there might be a book about selling in Europe coming from you in the near future but we can talk about that. That could be out in the funnel publishing.
I'll take it seriously.
We could think about that. Thanks again, Domenico. It's great to see you as always.
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Team, thank you for joining the show. As all of you know, the reason we do this is we're trying to improve the performance and professionalism of B2B sales. In doing so, we think we're going to be able to improve the lives of anybody in professional B2B sales. We appreciate your reading. If you liked our episode, please do like and subscribe to the Selling Well podcast, because that's how we actually get amazing guests like Domenico to join us.
If there are things that we can do to make this even more valuable to you, we really want to know that as well. Please send emails out to me. My name's MarkCox@InTheFunnel.com. That's my personal email. Let us know your constructive criticism. We love it, by the way, we get great tips from everybody. I personally respond to everybody who gives us a suggestion. Please keep those coming in. Thank you. In the meantime, keep adding value to the clients and prospects you're reaching out to, and we'll see you the next time on the Selling Well podcast.
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About Domenico Le Pera
Domenico is a client centric executive bridging sales and client success with deep SaaS expertise and a consulting skillset. After starting his career in consulting, he spent the last 14 years helping FinTech start-ups and scale-ups in the Financial Services industry to grow by keeping the client at the centre of attention.
